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	<title>Comments on: Masculinity, men and patriarchy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/</link>
	<description>Arbitrary Obsessions. Cities. History. Music. Feminism. Maami-isms. Patterns. Halwa. Identities. Free Verse. The Internets.</description>
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		<title>By: Victor</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-3366</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 23:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-3366</guid>
		<description>Hey Neha,

Thanks for the link. I think your comments are very insightful (and generated more discussion than mine did!) I think it&#039;s so important to see patriarchy (or sexism, not sure which I prefer) as a system. It&#039;s not just that men have sexist attitudes, though I think we all do; it&#039;s that gender oppresses everyone who has a gender i.e. men as well. I was just having a talk with a female friend today, who said it must be hard for guys when they&#039;re socialized to suppress their feelings. It&#039;s so true. We&#039;re not consciously afraid of appearing &#039;womanly&#039;; by the time we&#039;re adolescents, the message is so ingrained in us that it&#039;s not conscious at all. It&#039;s repressed, and gets sublimated into all sorts of self-destructive activities - though useful for capitalist discipline, I&#039;d argue.

I wasn&#039;t aware of French being an effeminate language for the Bolsheviks; certainly the leadership were well-versed in many languages. I have no doubt a lot of sexism went on in the Revolution, but I&#039;d just add that, by challenging the material structures of capitalism, the Russian Revolution made possible a real challenge to the roots of sexism. They set up collective kitchens, daycares and co-ops so women didn&#039;t have to labour unpaid in the home; abortion was free on demand; homosexuality was legalized decades before anywhere else, showing a real understanding of linked oppression. All that ended under Stalinism, when the Party brought back specifically macho role models: the Stakhanovites, the &#039;model workers&#039; who were invariably male and always did what the State told them. Which presumably meant not expressing their feelings :-)

For further reading, Alexandra Kollontai, a member of the Bolshevik Central Committee, wrote &quot;Love of Worker Bees&quot;, a semi-fictional novel about her attempts to set up a collective household and negotiate new gender and work relationships.

Cheers,

Victor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Neha,</p>
<p>Thanks for the link. I think your comments are very insightful (and generated more discussion than mine did!) I think it&#8217;s so important to see patriarchy (or sexism, not sure which I prefer) as a system. It&#8217;s not just that men have sexist attitudes, though I think we all do; it&#8217;s that gender oppresses everyone who has a gender i.e. men as well. I was just having a talk with a female friend today, who said it must be hard for guys when they&#8217;re socialized to suppress their feelings. It&#8217;s so true. We&#8217;re not consciously afraid of appearing &#8216;womanly&#8217;; by the time we&#8217;re adolescents, the message is so ingrained in us that it&#8217;s not conscious at all. It&#8217;s repressed, and gets sublimated into all sorts of self-destructive activities &#8211; though useful for capitalist discipline, I&#8217;d argue.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware of French being an effeminate language for the Bolsheviks; certainly the leadership were well-versed in many languages. I have no doubt a lot of sexism went on in the Revolution, but I&#8217;d just add that, by challenging the material structures of capitalism, the Russian Revolution made possible a real challenge to the roots of sexism. They set up collective kitchens, daycares and co-ops so women didn&#8217;t have to labour unpaid in the home; abortion was free on demand; homosexuality was legalized decades before anywhere else, showing a real understanding of linked oppression. All that ended under Stalinism, when the Party brought back specifically macho role models: the Stakhanovites, the &#8216;model workers&#8217; who were invariably male and always did what the State told them. Which presumably meant not expressing their feelings :-)</p>
<p>For further reading, Alexandra Kollontai, a member of the Bolshevik Central Committee, wrote &#8220;Love of Worker Bees&#8221;, a semi-fictional novel about her attempts to set up a collective household and negotiate new gender and work relationships.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Victor</p>
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		<title>By: angelo</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-2295</link>
		<dc:creator>angelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-2295</guid>
		<description>lol! i just saw this cat fight on your comments here (Nilu &amp; Neha), hilarious! thanks for making me smile. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol! i just saw this cat fight on your comments here (Nilu &amp; Neha), hilarious! thanks for making me smile. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Nilu</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-2155</link>
		<dc:creator>Nilu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-2155</guid>
		<description>what&#039;s with this - &lt;i&gt;&#039;this is my blog, i will have to have the last word and therefore will reply to every comment regardless of how stupid it is&#039;&lt;/i&gt; syndrome?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what&#8217;s with this &#8211; <i>&#8216;this is my blog, i will have to have the last word and therefore will reply to every comment regardless of how stupid it is&#8217;</i> syndrome?</p>
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		<title>By: Neha Viswanathan</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-2141</link>
		<dc:creator>Neha Viswanathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 13:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-2141</guid>
		<description>Nilu: Whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nilu: Whatever.</p>
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		<title>By: Nilu</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-2136</link>
		<dc:creator>Nilu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-2136</guid>
		<description>Ethavathu sonna, anubavii - aarayatdha.

gooda, baada nnu kettena?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ethavathu sonna, anubavii &#8211; aarayatdha.</p>
<p>gooda, baada nnu kettena?</p>
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		<title>By: nikita</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-2135</link>
		<dc:creator>nikita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-2135</guid>
		<description>yes, of course i see your point, Neha. and just like blogs allow us the space to put our ideas out...they also give others the space to comment...favourably or not..to what we have to say. and it is much easier to keep everyhting happy clappy..and not ruffle anything. for everyone around (the end of ideology argument). and when we do take a step into the not so happy clappy for everyone...we have to cover our tracks! 
but all in all...happy to see posts like yours...or the ones on women in the army, libertarianism etc floating around recently..and happy to see that they hit the spot enough to generate lots of comments. so here&#039;s hoping we see an interesting discussion on this series!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, of course i see your point, Neha. and just like blogs allow us the space to put our ideas out&#8230;they also give others the space to comment&#8230;favourably or not..to what we have to say. and it is much easier to keep everyhting happy clappy..and not ruffle anything. for everyone around (the end of ideology argument). and when we do take a step into the not so happy clappy for everyone&#8230;we have to cover our tracks!<br />
but all in all&#8230;happy to see posts like yours&#8230;or the ones on women in the army, libertarianism etc floating around recently..and happy to see that they hit the spot enough to generate lots of comments. so here&#8217;s hoping we see an interesting discussion on this series!</p>
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		<title>By: Neha Viswanathan</title>
		<link>http://www.withinandwithout.com/2006/06/masculinity-men-and-patriarchy/comment-page-1/#comment-2134</link>
		<dc:creator>Neha Viswanathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.withinandwithout.com/?p=830#comment-2134</guid>
		<description>Nilu: Good for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nilu: Good for you.</p>
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